Sunday, October 03, 2004

 

Who Won the Debate?

Reprinted from the message board at http://groups.msn.com/BrahmasWorld/_whatsnew.msnw

From Leslie:

Happy Birthday Brahma -- many many more

just got back from chicago...in car service driver thought bush was kickin Kerrys ass. I'm predisposed to want to like Kerry more...but they both look weak to me.... Kerry odoes not come off well...bush is a liar and comes off arrogant ( but probably only those predisposed to hating him) ...don't know if either candidate will gain or loose from this


Is the blonde bush twin on steroids???

her head is huge like a caucasin Barry Bonds or Jason Giambi in a long hair wig. And the other one looks a bit like Julie Nixon.

Where were the Kerry girls -- Trigger and Seabisuit? Actaully in a beastiality sort of way they can be somewhat attactive -- if you like the horsey look -- wonder if they whiny in bed

( Oh No it's edwards on tv-- a -- Bert Convy , without the edge ( hahaha). Edwards -- what type of polymer is he composed of. At least so far we havent had to see Cheney ( at least not yet).

Guiliani has got his act together...even when he says things that I don't agree with, he makes his point well

Teresa Heiny Kerry's butt is starting to get to Hillary proportions


From the Brahma:
Thank you Leslie....and thanks for the "Joan Rivers-esque" review in your second message. And you're right about the Bush twin that looks like Julie Nixon. Perhaps Laura can have children from seperate fathers like a dog or cat and her father is actually Richard Nixon.

Those watching on C-span saw the other one strike a pose just before they cut away:

Let me say right at the top (or near enough) that I'm pleased and honored that this potentially important event has taken place on Brahmaday.....as well as of course proud to send my warmest congratulations to the New York Yankees for clinching the American League East pennant on this day as well. Babe Ruth hit his 60th HR on September 30th, 1927.

In my pre-debate message that disappeared, I covered a lot of different aspects, including this excerpt from Paul Krugman's recent column:

"Interviews with focus groups just after the first 2000 debate showed Al Gore with a slight edge. Post-debate analysis should have widened that edge. After all, during the debate, Mr. Bush told one whopper after another - about his budget plans, about his prescription drug proposal and more. The fact-checking in the next day's papers should have been devastating.

But as Adam Clymer pointed out yesterday on the Op-Ed page of The Times, front-page coverage of the 2000 debates emphasized not what the candidates said but their "body language." After the debate, the lead stories said a lot about Mr. Gore's sighs, but nothing about Mr. Bush's lies. And even the fact-checking pieces "buried inside the newspaper" were, as Mr. Clymer delicately puts it, "constrained by an effort to balance one candidate's big mistakes" - that is, Mr. Bush's lies - "against the other's minor errors."

The result of this emphasis on the candidates' acting skills rather than their substance was that after a few days, Mr. Bush's defeat in the debate had been spun into a victory."

~*~ We really shouldn't be surprised that the fate of the free world could be effected by a candidate's breaking wind at an unfortunate time....afterall Clinton received the B.J. heard 'round the world.....helping place Gore in an uphill battle that eventually elected Bush and created the mess we're witnessing now. It's absolutely amazing the effect one person's sexual indescretion has had upon the rest of the world! It's a good example of "The Butterfly Effect":

Lorenz publicized his discovery at a 1972 meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. The title of his talk? "Predictability: Does the Flap of a Butterfly's Wings in Brazil set off a Tornado in Texas?" Thus was born the term "Butterfly Effect" -- the notion that a small action can produce big change over time.

~*~ Call this the political B.J. effect. Does the flap of an intern's lips set off a war in Iraq?

Anyway....the debate. Debates at the Presidential level are comparable to heavyweight championship fights. If the challenger doesn't give the sitting champ a sound beating, its usually scored a tie because the judges are reticent to surrender the belt with possible contrversy. Even if the champ looks bad, he needs to be knocked down to convince people the other guy is worthy. I don't think we saw Kerry win decicively enough to hand him the belt yet....but he definitely bloodied the champs nose.

I don't know how it played over the radio....a caller to Bob Fass tonight (www.wbai.org -Thur-midnighteastern time zone) who listened via radio claimed to have heard numerous speech gaffes by Bush that he could identify. On T.V., with the benefit of body language, I could only make out a few garbled-like gaffes. But Kerry after a brief warm-up, seemed to come out strong....and Bush seemed stunned by the early barrage. I think that threw him off his game plan for the first 40 minutes or so. He briefly recovered with the same old-school rhetoric about having to stay the course....and Kerry changes his mind too often. But his arguement had little substance. Kerry scored big when:

Kerry conceded a mistake on one point, but implied it paled next the one he accused Bush of making.

"You know, when I talked about the $87 billion, I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?

Kerry also said Bush erred when he defended the invasion of Iraq by saying "The enemy attacked us." "Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al-Qaida attacked us," Kerry said. (From Yahoo)

~*~ And true to Paul Krugman's analysis.....

Three post-debate polls suggested that voters' first impressions were good for Kerry, with most of those surveyed saying he did better than Bush. Such instant polls reflect the views of debate watchers and not the public at large. Initial reactions to a debate can change after a few days have passed.

~*~ Surely, my assesment is as prejudiced as Leslie's cabdriver...but I thought Kerry did VERY well. He looked calm and in control while Bush had a few Nixonesque moments where he looked flustered and he kept repeating himself...."it's hard work!...it's hard work!...".....We can't send the wrong message....we must stay the course...". Some of the news people's analysis praise him for "sticking to his message"....but it just seemed desperate and simple-minded to me. Unfortunately, many, many people relate to such "heart-felt" logic and conduct their lives with the same attitude. They prefer to stay blind to actual, thought-process logic, considering such things to be easily manipulated. Rather....they must consider themselves to be easily manipulated.....they'd rather keep their logic plain and simple....operative word: simple. If you prefer simple....Bush is your man. Simple.

From the Yahoo article:

Bush appeared perturbed when Kerry leveled some of his charges, scowling at times and looking away in apparent disgust at others. Kerry often took notes when the president spoke. Some networks offered a split screen to viewers so they could see both men at the same time and watch their reactions.

...Kerry said he had a four-part plan to battle terrorists, and said Bush's could be summed up in four words — "More of the same."

"You cannot lead the war on terror if you keep changing positions on the war on terror," retorted the president.

Kerry appeared to taunt the commander in chief at one point during the debate when he said his father, former President George H.W. Bush, had stopped troops from advancing on Baghdad after they had liberated Kuwait during the 1991 Persian Gulf War (news - web sites).

Now, he said, the son ordered an invasion of Iraq anyway, without an exit strategy, and under conditions that mean the United States has incurred "90 percent of the casualties and 90 percent of the cost."

~*~ And Kerry scored points when he was able to link the Iraqi war effort to domestic problems that weren't scheduled for the first debate:

Unfortunately, he (Osama) escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora," he said. "We had him surrounded. But we didn't use American forces, the best trained in the world, to go kill him. The president relied on Afghan warlords and he outsourced that job too."

~*~ He also managed to mention stemcell research in an answer to a question from Jim Leher. All in all...I'd say any possible "fence-sitters" will have to take another look at Kerry now. He was confident, clear in his responses....very Presidential. Bush looked out of his league.

I suspect his problem was proper preperation. They had some Republican ex-Senator, or Governor come down to Crawford Texas to play the part of Kerry in mock debates. I highly doubt he was as aggresive as Kerry was.... Bush seemed taken aback and completely off-guard.....as if he never expected it. He surely wasn't prepared for it.

Afterwards, the Republican "fixers" were out in force....telling us what the President really meant

While Bush was insisting everything is going according to plan, these were the day's major headlines:

Bloody day in Gaza takes 29 lives

U.S. and Iraqi Forces Attack Insurgents
A boy picks up the damaged bicycle of his dead brother from the site after two car bombs and a roadside bomb went off in succession in the al-Amel neighborhood of Baghdad, Iraq, Thursday, Sept. 30, 2004. At least 41 were killed, most of them children and over 200 were wounded in the attack. (AP Photo/Khalid Mohammed)

U.S. Forces Storm Rebel Iraq Town, at Least 80 Dead


~*~ It doesn't seem like it's going all that well, does it?
Andie ran into a neighbor outside who said he will STILL vote for Bush....and he parroted the Republican company lines when asked why. "Kerry changes his mind too much. When he came back from Vietnam, he spoke out against the war..." but moments later he revealed that he did the exact same thing..."except he wasn't as vocal about it."

Oddly enough....he happens to have a kid serving over there. He's back for his 2nd tour. (BTW....Kerry scored big points by claiming Bush is employing a "back door draft" by forcing military personal to serve extra tours of active duty in Iraq)

Anyway....we met the kid this summer at a going away soiree. He's just a young guy...about 20 years old.....who didn't see that much action the first time round and talked like a seasoned vet. Now, his father says he just endured his first real fire-fight and he's pretty scared. His ears were ringing for two days afterwards. At night they sleep in pitch-black holes in the ground, with rodents and bugs scampering about. They don't have things they need. His father is going to send a package to him and his buddies containing some of those things.....magna-lite flashlights were mentioned....and we intend to add our assistance. Andie made it clear to him....we're against the war, but we're FOR the troops and would be glad to help. So....if anyone would like to help us with this endeavor, please make yourself known to us so we can work something out for them. I'm tellin' ya....they're a group of kids huddled in a dark hole in the dessert near the Syrian border.....and they really need our help.....despite Bush's insistance that he has supplied the troops with everything possible. I didn't really believe the stories about soldiers in need of flack-jackets over there.....but I do now.

~Brahma*

posted by ~Brahma 1:41 AM